Re: Rogue status & hiatus


Why not just have punny threads with specific themes each weekend and members can simply post at will their witty puns on that weekend's topic if they feel so inclined?

This way, it relieves any of the usual pressure and hassle associated with hosting a Rogue and at the same time promotes healthy brain exercise without the stress!

Doug Spector

-----Original Message-----
From: Lars Hanson <parkersan2001@...>
To: PUNY <>
Sent: Sun, Mar 6, 2022 11:02 am
Subject: Re: [puny] Rogue status & hiatus


    Sadly, that does seem to be the case, as Kirk and I noted some time ago.

    Work is involved in creating a Rogue Riddle, and then there are significant demands on the host's time once the riddle has been posted. 

    On 30 April 2020, I posted the following:

To ask, or not to ask, that is the question:
Whether tis nobler on the list to suffer 
The slings and arrows of outragèd Gary
Or to take action against a growing apathy
And by opposing end them?  To cease, to stop – 
No more – and by a stop to say we end
The efforts and the thousand notional puns
The list is heir to:  ‘tis a dissolution 
Devoutly to be wished.  To cease, to stop,
To stop, perchance to reap:  ay, there’s the rub!
For in that death of riddles what might one reap
When fearless leader finds them gone
Must give us pause:  that’s the aspect
That makes calamity of so long a life,
For who would bear the whips and scorns of list,
The leader’s wrath, the disappointed players,
The loss of riddle sets, the game’s decay,
The absence of guesses and loss of riddle turns
The patient cluing of unworthy takes,
When riddler might his answers make
By simply ceasing?  Who would these burdens bear
By sweat of brow -- the riddler’s weary
But the force of custom weighs upon us all.

    Those thoughts of almost two years ago were the result of conversations between Kirk and me about the lack of player participation and the fact that at that time it seemed to be just the two of us trying to maintain the Rogue Riddles.

    If players find the Rogue Riddles appealing, fun and worthwhile, they will participate.  If not, they will not.

    The original idea of the Rogue Riddles was to present riddles which would require a bit of thought to  solve.  The Rogue Riddles ran over the weekend, when, presumably, people had more time to work on the riddles.  Over time, however, it seemed some hosts preserved their own weekend time by launching Rogue Riddles ever later on Sunday, or even on occasions on a Monday.

    The Rogue Riddles seemed to have grown out of the old Riddle Chain, tougher riddles passed around among a few on PUNY.  Because the Riddle Chain was just that, each member had time to solve the riddles in his or her own time.  The Rogue Riddle expansion allowed all at PUNY to engage, but still the number of participants was relatively small, almost never more than eight players for any riddle set, and more often in the four to six range.

    The challenge for the Rogue Riddles was to construct a set of riddles which were difficult enough that they required some work to solve, but not so difficult that they were too easily solved.  Well created Rogue Riddles run the length of time allotted, with all or almost all of the riddles being solved.  The host can assess the "success" of his or her riddles by the number of players, the number of riddles solved in a set, and the amount of time required to solve the riddles.

    The F riddles had a different structure.  The idea of the F Riddles was to provide quick, easily solved riddles.  In its heyday, the F riddles would have as many as eight or ten riddles posted and solved per day!  Over time, though, the numbers of players tapered off, and eventually it seemed the F came to stand for "Fizzled."

    For those constructing F Riddles, the challenge was considerably different.  The idea in each case was to pose a riddle which was satisfyingly clever yet which could be solved almost at once.

    The fundamental question would seem to be one of how many members of PUNY actually find challenging mental puzzles fun to solve.  Or, perhaps how many of the actual participants at PUNY find mental puzzles fun to solve.  (Roughly 10% or less of the members of an e-mail list actually are active participants, while  the remaining 90% or more are "lurkers.")

    So, how many here actually are intrigued by the challenge of solving mental puzzles?

    How many here like Wordle, or Spelling Bee, or crosswords, or Sudoku, or Kenken, or Two Not Touch, or logic and other puzzles?




On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 8:56 AM bill crider <bill.crider@...> wrote:
Yes, the F riddles were fun, but died due to lack of participation.
The Rogues have been fading for some time, and IMHO may soon suffer the same fate. We are down to only about 5 semi-regular participants. Not all of us are able to participate all the time due to other commitments. I, for example, enjoy the Rogues but have commitments every saturday all day. When I have posted Saturday morning, I have sometimes gotten angry emails from people by noon saturday because I did not respond to their guesses immediately. But even aside from that, it is always disappointing to spend hours in preparation of a rogue but have only one or two people make feeble attempts, and not be willing to host the following week (I am as guilty of this as anyone else). 
Unless we can expand the membership/participation, the Rogue is doomed. Sigh.

On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 8:48 PM James Ertner <jde31459@...> wrote:
I always enjoyed the "F riddles." As I recall, they were quick and had many more players.


On March 5, 2022, at 7:22 PM, Lars Hanson <parkersan2001@...> wrote:


    We now are accepting gaps??!!

    I well remember the fuss when I proposed a break over the Christmas and New Year’s holidays once…..

    Maybe it is time to find out what people would like in a riddle set….

    Ideas, anyone?




On Mar 5, 2022, at 18:48, gary hallock via <> wrote:

In case anyone has begun to wonder about the ongoing string of fumbled, missing or erratic Rogues, here’s a detailed summary of their recent history and speculations about their probable near future…

RR #1112 was hosted by Jim Ertner on the weekend of Feb 5-6. You may recall this one was alphabetical animal-related knock-knock jokes and was claimed by Jim’s only player, me. (Reveal posted 2/10/22)

RR #1113 was hosted by GH on the weekend of Feb 12-13. There were 4 players who posted winning worksheets but no one claimed. This one was shaggy semi-daffynitions. (Reveal posted 2/22/22)

RR #1114 was again hosted by GH on the weekend of Feb 19-20 but launched on President’s day (Monday) Due to my posting blunder, I received a smaller-than-viable response. As Bill Crider was the only player, he won/claimed by default. (Reveal posted 3/6/22)

Neither of us posted a Rogue on the following weekend of Feb 26-27 and yet nobody seemed very concerned over that. And because I had an impending too-weak Euro-vacation, (March 3-17) Bill suggested that we should put the game on hold until my return.

Thus there was no rogue posted or played on the weekend of March 5-6 and none will be expected on the weekend of March 12-13.

Assuming I’m not recruited into the ranks of Ukrainian freedom fighters this next week, our best speculation is that upon my return on March 17th Bill will host #1115 that following weekend.

That targeted Rogue weekend will be March 19-20 at which time I will probably play, claim and continue my lonely solo adventure of hosting & posting while everyone else is ghosting.

Thank you for reading this far and caring thus far.

Gary (Tearless Bleeder) Hallock

Gary (Immodest Moderator) Hallock, Leerless Feeder

Doug Spector

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